An Open Letter to the MSL Community:
They told us that the mission is all about us. They stood in front of us, looked straight at us and said: “Do the work.” “If you do the work, we’ll give you the tools to succeed.”
I believed them. We all did. They said it at the open house and that drew me in. They said it at orientation and that kept me in. They’re still saying it, but I’ve stopped believing it.
Now we know better.
When they wanted to sell it to us they knew better than to tell us that the Dean would use us for his personal mission. They kept that to themselves. They didn’t tell us about his blog. They didn’t tell us about his conferences. And they definitely didn’t tell us that he’d “market” the school, in Larry Flynt’s Hustler Magazine.
They didn’t’ tell us that. If they had, how many of us would have chosen to be here today? But we are here. They sold it to us, and some of us think they’ve breached a responsibility to us.
“Know your audience,” they preach in the writing classes. “Know your audience.”
I want to know who Velvel’s “audience” is ? They told us it’s us. They sold us on the claim that he’s all about fighting for us; all about giving us the opportunity to succeed.
That mission is what brought me here. I remember being at an open house and thinking “these people really go after it.” I thought “they’re talking directly to me. They’re talking directly about me.” I remember thinking “Here’s the way to improve my life and my family’s life.”
When they sold MSLaw to me they bragged about Velvel’s fight for human rights. How do I square any of that with his choice to interview in Hustler. One of the rudest magazines on the planet Earth. One of the most dehumanizing magazines I’ve ever seen.
I can’t. I can’t square that.
I heard that he was asked to apologize to the entire MSLaw community. I’ve also heard that instead of doing that, he’s defending his choice.
I can’t square that either. Seems to me that his choices say it all. He's actually defending instead of apologizing. Seems it’s not about us at all. Seems it’s entirely about him. Our money, and our commitment are his to squander. He seems to think that’s why we’re here. To promote him.
Let’s be clear. This isn’t about the interview itself. It’s not at all about the interview itself. Some of us agree with him on that score. Some of us don’t. We can disagree on that. We can definitely disagree on that.
He’s got the right to say what he thinks. They’ve already lined up his defense that he’s got a 1st Amendment right to say what he believes. They’ve already begun to argue that curbing him is an “affront to academic freedom.”
That’s absurd. It’s an absurd way to deflect the real question and make it out to be something different than it really is. That’s an argument that would earn us a failing grade in a writing class. This isn’t about academic freedom or Velvel’s right to say what he thinks.
He’s definitely got the right to say what he chooses to say. He’s absolutely got the right to climb up on to whatever soap-box he chooses. But he’s got a responsibility too. He’s got a responsibility to all of us.
He’s got a responsibility to build the bridges that they promised us. To give us the tools that they promised us. He has a responsibility to build credibility for the school and for us as we take the tools they promised us out into the professional world.
But instead of building he manages, single-handedly, to destroy the credibility that we work to build.
In his “personal” blog and his “personal” radio show, and his “personal” TV shows, and his “personal” conferences he always makes sure to mention that he’s the Dean of the Massachusetts School of Law.
Does he have that right? Of course he does. But what about his responsibility to all of us?
In all of his personal rants and his personal runs at his personal fame he always makes sure to include words about the school’s mission; never misses the opportunity to make the claim that he represents us.
Does he have that right? Of course he does. But what about his responsibility to all of us?
So here are the questions: Who does he represent, and who is his audience? It’s not me. Definitely not me. They told me it would be us. They promised us that the school was all about our success.
And here’s another thing to consider: neither the administration nor the full time faculty are stepping up. The most we can squeeze out of the Administration is either “I didn’t know about it” or “There’s nothing I can do.”
The faculty is keeping entirely silent. Why is that? The rumor is that more than a few of them are outraged, but not one is speaking out. Why is that? Is there another law school in the country where the faculty would have nothing to say when the Dean of the school embarrasses them all?
And what of the adjuncts. How many of the adjuncts will bail. How many of them might have to disassociate with the place because of the embarrassment of marketing MSLaw in Hustler magazine?
Remember – the school is built on its adjunct professors, but they live and work in the community. They build their reputations on credibility. Can they risk the taint created by this Hustler connection? I’m betting that some of them cannot.
What about his responsibility to them and, by extension, to all of us.
I’m not sure what I’ll do. Of course I’m thinking “transfer” but that’s probably not realistic. I've spoken with some others who are considering the same thing. But they have us caught between that proverbial rock and a hard place. I’ve got too much invested, and where could I go? My family has too much invested.
What about his responsibility to them?
By now you may be thinking that this editorial is “over-the-top.” Hyperbole ? Maybe it is. The truth is that when someone first told me about the interview it didn’t really register. “What’s the big deal,” I thought. Then someone showed me the magazine.
That’s when the enormity of this foolishness hit me. Find a copy. Take a look at the page before the interview. It’s a photo essay of a day in the life of a “dedicated porn star.” Or look at the page after. That one’s about “Long Island Lolita going XXX.” Glance at any of the so called features. Read any paragraph anywhere in the magazine. See if you agree with me.
What about his responsibility to all of us?
Credibility. That’s what they teach us. Reputation. That’s what they teach us. Know your audience. That’s what they preach.
I bought the line. We all did.
I don’t know what we can do about any of this. We know that the administration won't do a thing. They told us that already. Maybe the Trustees will do something. We’re told that they don’t care, but whether they care or not they all have a duty to the school. Maybe if we push them – if enough of us push them, they’ll remember that duty.
What about his responsibility to all of us?
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28 comments:
What about the school? It is our school not his. It was setup by students for students.
Our bar rates have been going down for years. Does MSL do anything? Oh yeah they spend even more money on TV shows no one watches.
Velvel's buddies on the board do nothing: is it a lost cause? The bar rates for MSL have never been worst, yet we do nothing.
I think we have to admit: the ABA was right to deny MSL accreditation. With a dean like Velvel why should they have approved us? Who is he accountable to? Not the trustees it seems.
Someone should see if the trustees are violating their fiduciary duty by not over seeing what is going on at MSL...
Hustler was just he most recent black eye he has given us. Give him 90 days and he will do something equally stupid and make this just another in a long chain that MSL students and alumni will have to deal with.
It is our school, but the board of trustees is hand-picked by the Dean. I don't see any of them being willing to do anything to upset the Dean who has appointed them to their positions.
The further away from MSL we are in terms of time and experience the less anyone cares where we went to school.
No one lives forever.
Why is Velvel still Dean?
One has to seriously question his fitness to lead. Alumni pay the price for his juvenile decisions with damage to our reputations. Students pay dearly for his neglect-the bar pass rate is actionable.
The Trustees must Act. Impeach him, fire him, retire him....Act or be Liable.
I find this article in Hustler to have inflamed my senses.
I pose the question as to how an educated man would choose a magazine that is not only in poor taste, but lacks any connection to the legal community, for which he attaches himself to continuously. One answer to my question would be Velvel's constant need for attention at the expense of others.
The magazine depicts women in the most DEBASED WAY!!!!! We are not talking Playboy here, we are talking down right FILTH. I wonder if the class on women issues will lose validity based on the schools attachment to Hustler and Velvel.
How many more years will MSL staff, alumni,students, and the trustee's allow this man to defacate on their reputations?
Velvel has clearly hit an all time low. It has always been about him and the administration. Therefore, when you leave a post that states "what about the students", and "what about the school", it's never been about either and has always been about Velvel and his administration. Whatever you do, don't sit at the faculty lunch table. Isn't that a clue that the school lacks equality?
MSL would have been an ABA school if Velvel wasn't in charge. Good luck finding a job with MSL attached to your resume. Good luck thinking that the administration or the trustee's will oust Velvel. Good luck period.
I would advise most of you to sit back and take inventory. Some of the full-time staff speaks to some, if not most of you in a dehumanizing manner. It is one thing to probe you intellectually, it's quite another to insult you in front of your peers. Did you go to law school for a law degree or did you go to be emotionally traumatized? Other ABA schools act professionally in comparison. who allows this to take place? Don't count on Velvel to oversee that students are treated well, because he's too busy with himself.
Don't count on the administration or the trustee's to take a position on any of the issues that discredit MSL because history speaks volumes.
The only thing we can hope for is that we, as students and alumni ban together and NOT allow this to continue. Enough is enough. MSL needs a facelift that will gain credibility in the legal community.
How about a introduction, so we will know what you're talking about....
blah blah blah "hustler", blah, blah blah MSL... What exactly are you talking about? I stopped my subscription to hustler some years ago, thus I have no idea what you're talking.
WARNING:: Long Post/Rant, I appologize in advance.
I'm not sure I'd describe that magazine as "the rudest magazine on the planet" I rather enjoy it! Plus I think anything MBLA (man loves boys loves association or whatever) is definitely the rudest and crudest of them all! Just my two cents. I'm not defending Vevel, in fact I think he's to bizarre for even my tastes but I didn't choose MSL for him, I chose it for me! I was (surprisingly to many) accepted to Suffolk, Southern New England School of Law, AND New England School of Law in addition to MSL. I was recommended MSL by many attorneys, and saw that just because you go to Suffolk doesn't make you a great attorney (look at my brother, sitting in a cell, his attorney went to Suffolk). School is what you make of it, not who makes it for you. I also don't believe he's making a mockery of the school. I think his opinion is just that. Just because I'm into the weird and unusual doesn't make me a bad MSL student, it doesn't make the friends I associate weird and unusual or bad either. Don't get me wrong I dislike Velvel. In fact, I was shocked to find out he was the Dean (Coyne was much more suited for the job as president or what have you). I think that while he's using the school as leverage, what person hasn't done the same. When I'm at a job interview with any chef, I always boast I worked with Ming Tsai and Michael Schlow, when I'm with a restaurant manager who doesn't know who that is I boast I worked at Top of the Hub and Crane Brook Tea Room & Restaurant. Name-dropping is what people do. Am I upset sometimes that people will reflect it on us, absolutely but most people forget. Maybe the law community holds grudges about us, so what, WE are here to over come it! WE are here to prove we can do it and WE are here to show that just because we have a mentally challenged Dean, doesn't mean WE suck! I disagree that he “he manages, single-handedly, to destroy the credibility that we work to build.”
This writer also forgets that, Day in the Life of a porn star, and Long Island Lolita goes XXX is written for their audience, people who enjoy porn. Individuals like this forget where Kurt Vonegut, Joyce Carol Oates. Or look at Playboy where presidents, and other authors have been interviewed and had published stories in it. Sometimes these stories are what got them on the map to begin with. Just because it’s in a porn magazine doesn’t make it dirty! Just because you shower every day, doesn’t make you a clean person! I’m not trying to stand up for Velvel, I’m standing up for Hustler and MSL. This writer also doesn’t say who they are, just that they want attention, where are they at school and in the classrooms trying to generate attention. The first I heard about this was at lunch, and as quickly as the topic came it went. No one was talking about it.
My grandmother once told me that life hits you some pretty serious shit, all you need to do is “eat it and shit it out”. Hustler is not bad, MSL is not damaged, Velvel yes is a moron but he doesn’t stand for me…does he stand for you?
Life is too short for students and alumni to be complaining about the Dean's twisted dictatorship. Larry is obviously bored and is: 1-Showing early signs of dementia; or 2-Figures he has nothing to lose. I mean, what does this guy do every day? From what I remember he comes in at 11, reads a book, then goes home. The only time he actually speaks to students is at the Open House.
The Faculty is the group that suffers and is justified in declaring war. This should have been done a long time ago. I expect it's only a matter of time before he's shown the door.
Move on when you graduate! The point in matriculating was to learn something and to be able to sit for the BAR, not impress everyone with your credentials. (If this was why you attended MSL you are retarded and you just wasted three years of your life). To borrow a quote: "Wake up [students].. Ropes and Gray is not walking through that door. Goodwin Proctor is not walking through that door. And if you expect them to walk through that door you're gonna [get] gray and old [waiting]... And all the negativity on this blog sucks."
And By the way, I learned plenty at MSL... More practical instruction than I would have at any other accredited Law School in Massachusetts. I'd do it all again.
Our school is being led by an incompetent fool.
If it weren't for him, we would be ABA approved, and would have an endowment.
Impeach Velvel!
From what I've read, Velvel's always been a loose cannon. If he wasn't, MSL wouldn't exist.
Listen up people, NOBODY READS THE ARTICLES IN GIRLIE MAGAZINES! They buy it for the pictures. You're complaining about a non-issue.
I completely agree with anonymous #7. I didn't enroll at MSL for the prestige. It simply isn't there. I enrolled to pass the bar, and I don't see Velvel's antics leading to the accreditation being revoked.
A friend of mine moved to Arizona a few years ago. When someone learned he was from Massachusetts, they said "Oh, you're from the gay-marriage state". I'm sure if if was a year earlier, he would have come up with another reason for disliking people from Massachusetts.
The same thing goes for MSL and Velvel. Some people will never accept MSL because it doesn't fit their idea of how a law school should operate.
Does anyone really believe that people will think less of the school because Velvel is a rebel? I certainly don't. People who don't know MSL or Velvel will simply scratch their heads and say "Gee, what a nut". Anyone shallow enough to feel that his actions are a reflection on the school are simply not deserving of my respect anyway.
I'll also point out that a bunch of anonymous whiners really have no voice. If you look at the about me section on the main page here, you see that discuss01 claims to be a graduate of the program in the 90's, who in his latest rant (An Open Letter to the MSL Community) is considering transferring.
didn't he also supposedly lose a ton of the school's money by investing with Bernie Madoff? I swear the MSL noose gets tighter around my neck every semester as I hear more and more horrifying things done by the dean. I've been at the school 2 yrs now and i've never once seen him
How interesting that Velvel has become 'The Man'- the one he has fought against all his life. It's his way or be fired, the faculty have no way to make change. The students learn from day one they have no voice, don't complain that the bar pass rate is actually 40-55%. 'The Man' says it's all the your fault anyway. MSL is A GREAT PLACE!- but its slowly dying from neglect. Would you sign up again for 3-4 years of hard work and sacrifice if they told you the truth about the bar pass rate?
Take Back MSL! Impeach The Man!
If you want to complain about the ABA deal or about the Dean or even the pass rate, why did you enroll here? You certainly knew that this school was not ABA approved. You should have known that if the standards to admission were such that many of you (myself included)could actually attend, then the BAR pass rates cshould be lower.
Come out of your shells, admit that you chose MSL for tuition rates and get what you can from the school. I assure you that graduating from MSL will not determine the quality of law you practice.
I have had some crappy instructors here but I have also had some great ones. Similar to what I experienced in grad school, undergrad school and in life. Do you think it would be different at Harvard?
Stop your complaining, enjoy the tuition and flexible scheduling, make the most out of the classes and use the experience to make you a great lawyer.
If you are looking to get spoonfed and study in a fairy tale school like you see on TV, MSL (or anywhere) is probably not for you. Grow up, quit complaining, make the most of it and worry about something more important than whothe Dean talks to.
By the way, did anyone go to the seminar about Bush and see what it was all about? I thought not.
As Dean of a law school, Velvel has a responsibility to faculty and students to make MSL the best it can be.
Ask a student who is currently in school. Not only is Velvel not performing his administrative duties, we believe he promotes his own agenda using some portion of school funds to do it. That's student money, which should be used for the faculty's professional development and student's educational development. This is not whining. This is a legitimate complaint.
If a law school does not adequately prepare students to pass the Bar, and additionally knows it and still refuses to make improvements- that's a legitimate concern. If the public thinks your education or degree is less because of Velvel's promotion of his personal endeavors- that's a legitimate concern. If our adjunct professors, dedicated judges and lawyers, are seriously considering leaving MSL because of Velvel's choice to associate the school with a pornographic magazine... we got a big, legitimate problem.
It's not whinning or complaining to ask the Trustees to hold Velvel accountable for not performing his duties as Dean.
The current students are just reasonably asking for the basics- an adequate legal education. Some of you in practice seem to forget- you have to pass the Bar first, in order to put Velvel behind you.
I hope you can support us.
A brewing storm or just a warm wind blowing? In response to Peter Cotch and MSL students who are demanding an apology from Dean Velvel for expressing his views…
It seems to be a lot of hot air directed at an individual who happens to be the Dean of Massachusetts School of Law. The lawyers and law students that disagree with Mr. Velvel should be reminded that he has broken no law and is using his Constitutional rights in expressing a valid opinion. Rather than attack the actual argument made by Mr. Velvel, many have resorted to calling him “crazy” or questioning his mental competency or “fitness.”
Some students feel that Mr. Velvel has breached his “contract” with them. Apparently, the school’s mission to provide them with a legal education, that would otherwise be denied them, came with the implication, in their view, that no one at the school would express controversial views. Massachusetts School of Law was founded on controversy. Mr. Velvel and other legal scholars bucked a system that disenfranchised large groups of people at the school’s inception. There was never an implication that any student would get more than an opportunity to become a lawyer. If you think otherwise, you should read the mission statement again.
If you enjoy the status quo or want to be a graduate of a conservative school there are other places for you. If you want Mr. Velvel to shut up because you don’t agree with him, you’re going to need a better argument than “he is crazy.” Remember Constitutional Law, second year, we have to protect the speech of those we do not agree with for the Constitution to mean anything. All Mr. Velvel has done is express the view that there should be a trial for a potential war criminal. Sure, that alleged war criminal happens to be the former President of the United States. Who, if not the people, should hold the President accountable? Mr. Velvel will not be the judge, jury and executioner. There are consequences for crimes, whether you are the President or not. Mr. Velvel will have to convince a court of law that there is enough evidence for Mr. Bush to be indicted. Shouldn’t Mr. Velvel be allowed a hearing on the issues? What are the facts?
The argument that Mr. Velvel chose the wrong publication or that the publication is offensive and therefore his message has no merit is not a legal argument. Hustler is a legitimate magazine. Velvel no more hurt the students of MSL than Noam Chomsky hurt the students of Harvard University, in his “Rebel Without A Pause” Hustler interview. As a graduate of MSL your success will depend on you. If every student, faculty member or school were harmed by the speech of academics, what would be the point of free speech?
If you believe that no crime has been committed, that our wars were justified, that prisoners should be held without due process, that it is okay to torture prisoners, that it is acceptable for the President to disregard the Constitution when it contradicts his position – make your argument, no one is stopping you. Who knows? Maybe you will have an opportunity to work on the defense team of Mr. Bush.
I certainly don't want to be associated with this lunatic and his controversial methods. I understand that the dean picks the board of trustees, but don't you think if the entire student body were to petition for his removal, it would have an effect? Regardless of how powerless we may all feel, we need to remember that without the students, there would be no school. We need to band together and make our voices heard.
Since my first days at MSL- I havent heard one person say one good thing about Dean Velvel.
Students, Faculty, and Alumni role their eyes when his name is brought up in a conversation.
I think MSL is what it is today IN SPITE of Dean Velvel- and not BECAUSE of Dean Velvel.
Is there something we can do as he has, in terms of publically standing up for ourselves, instead of feeling humiliated to say you are a student at MSL!!! I have invested 3 semesters here going into my fourth, and at this time, a transfer is looking good too, a harder route, but at least not embarassing, unless there is something we can do!!!!
I really like the line someone previously used, saying that MSL was what it was in spite of Velvel- not because of him.
How true. The only compliments I have heard regarding Velvel is that he is extremely intelligent. Of course, a student would never say that because he has absolutely no interaction with the students. I don't believe he taught a class this past semester, or the semester before, or the year prior to that, or the year prior to that, etc.. Now before someone tells me that this sort of practice is customary, since when has MSL followed the norm? If Velvel is such an incredible thinker, and a wealth of knowledge, why doesn't he share? Well- probably for the same reason he doesn't invest any money into the school: he is greedy.
Velvel is too busy trying to find new suspenders and moccasins to participate in academia. Which is fine- BUT, this is also the same person who refuses to bring MSL to the modern age and let students do such things as register for classes online. I don't know if he comes from an era where he fears computers will ultimate overcome man via artificial intelligence, or he just can't be bothered with the logistics behind it. Either way it is a classic example of why he is not fit for his post.
Schools, and more specifically law schools, need to be forward thinking. School is not just learning about why we are where we are, and how it works. It is also about trying to figure out where we go from here, and the best possible route.
I really do have MSL pride. But I do not have pride in my dean. And as someone else mentioned, I didn't come to MSL for Velvel, but I will certainly recognize that Velvel is not what MSL is to me. If I have to be vocal about Velvel's incompetence, so be it.
I think you'd all be surprised how many students, professors, and employees happen to agree with us.
Move over Velvel. The times they are a changing.
Some here would say Hustler is a legitimate magazine. Ok sure...but a ‘legitimate’ pornographic magazine.
The June 2009 issue of Hustler magazine displays page after page of highly explicit sexual images that dehumanize women. I was especially distressed by the images of young girls in the back of the magazine, which comes close, if not deliberately so, to teen/child pornography.
Pornography is not harmless. It drives an international commercial sex industry that promotes prostitution, juvenile sex trafficking, and endorses domestic and sexual violence against women and girls. It embodies discrimination, sexism, racism, and by its nature, is a violation of civil rights. This is not solely a feminist perspective, but one that is supported by decades of research and studies.
Yes, one has a First Amendment right to contribute to the marketing and sale of a pornographic magazine. However, there is also a known human cost to subjugating women and girls. Dean Velvel should have unreservedly declined to partner with an industry that perpetrates that harm. An apology is due.
Having said this, I believe the core issue is not Dean Velvel’s First Amendment rights, not his pursuit of Bush for war crimes, not even his appearance in Hustler.
The Dean’s personal pursuits, seem to give rise to a strong student voice, that asks the central underlying question:
Is the mission of MSL, “to provide a high quality, practical and affordable legal education to deserving persons who have been unfairly excluded from law schools” being satisfied?
Is MSL’s mission sufficiently satisfied, when apparently the bar pass rate has steadily declined to less than 50%, where students appear to be outwardly concerned that their tuition does not support professional and educational development to the detriment of their legal education, and where the administration’s actions, or lack there of, allegedly have a chilling effect on the credibility of the MSL community?
These questions must have an immediate and unyielding examination by the MSL Board of Trustees.
In his Hustler interview, the Dean spoke of accountability. The interview reports he said, ‘one reason this nation repeats mistakes is that its officials are not accountable’. Wise words I think, and certainly applicable here.
It's really amazing how the students are blamed for the low bar pass rate-one full time Professor has repeatedly said in class- the faculty has looked at the bar pass rate, we are doing everything perfectly, and decided it's the students fault. Seriously.
Common sense tells you, you can't examine your own methods and deem them perfect- not a valid examination. How can the administration define perfect as a 40-50% pass rate? That's a Huge Red Flag and a failing grade by any standard.
I think we an independent educational consultant- not a lawyer pretending to be an educator- to come in, design a curriculum that over 3 years builds in the skills necessary to pass the Bar.
This is exactly what the State does for the MCAS test. Starting in the early grades, they teach test taking skills and subject matter, so by 10th grade, a student has practiced and mastered the necessary skills to pass the MCAS and graduate HS. It's really basic educational programing. And an easy fix to help the problem.
Why would Coyne and Velvel object to this?
I agree Ellen. Pornography perpetuates the sex industry. Commercial sexual exploitation of women and girls of all ages, including prostitution, pornography, the Internet bride industry, and sex tourism, is one of the most devastating, and escalating practices of gender-based violence assaulting the human rights and dignity of women and girls. Victims of the sex industry, often suffer severe physical and mental health consequences including injuries from beatings and rapes; psychological trauma; HIV/AIDS; and alcohol and drug abuse either induced by pimps or by victims’ attempts to reduce their physical and mental pain.
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com
/pdfs/FarleyYale
Law2006.pdf
If you take a quick look at this Yale Law Journal article, you would see that there is clear studied link between prostitution, the sex/slave trade, traffiking of woman and children and pornography.
Women depicted in pornography have a higher rate of sexual abuse, rape, physical abuse and emotional abuse as children. They may have been bought and sold against their will and came to join the industry because they have been so beaten down, they feel this is all they are good for.
They have experienced similar torture to the torture experienced by the war prisoners Dean Velvel thinks he is supporting.
I just wanted to let you all know that the girl you are jerking off to may have been sold by her impoverished family and beaten in order to make those films you love so much.
And I am not anonymous in saying this. My name is Charlene Carroll and I am a third year law student at MSL and I'm INFURIATED that Dean Velvel is willing to be part of the sex industry.
http://www.catwinternational.org/index.php
As a student, I believe that Velvel's actions substantially hurt the mission of the school.
What good is an affordable legal education if the QUALITY is so poor. Class after class is inadequately prepared for the Bar, and nothing changes. I'd rather pay extra.
Better yet, maybe Dean Velvel can redirect some of our tuition away from his numerous projects that do little to enhance the quality of our legal education or the professional development of the faculty.
Dean Velvel:
1. Stop the production of the TV shows. Enough already.
2. Stop plans for The Massachusetts College of History and Law. Can you really start a new school when MSL is in dire trouble?
3. Stop using school funds to pay your administrative assistant to type your PERSONAL Blog entries on 'Velvel on National Affairs'.
How do I know that- you admitted it in your December 2008 entry.(Par. 3) blog.http://velvelonnationalaffairs.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html
Trustees:
Protect the mission and the survival of MSL. Respect the hard working students and dedicated faculty.
Hold him accountable.
Prior to enrolling in Fall 2005, I asked the Admissions Director directly- 'What is the Bar Pass rate'? She replied, between 60-70% for first time takers; 85% overall for graduates who have ever taken the Bar.
A friend is considering enrolling in the Fall 2009. He addressed the same question directly to an Admissions Associate a few weeks ago. He received the same exact answer.
Knowing now that MSL's bar pass rate has been less than 60% for some years, I suspect that I enrolled based on a misrepresentation. If my friend enrolls, certainly it may rise to fraud.
I have asked Dean Velvel and the Board of Trustees to initiate a full and immediate investigation.
Does anyone know how to find the bar exam passing rates for MSL? I saw on a blog that the passing rate for Feb 09 was 39% and July 08 was 27%. If the passing rates are really that low, and the school is claiming 60-70%, I have to seriously reconsider cutting my losses.
I called the Massachusetts Board of Bar Examiners today. To only disclose poass rates to the schools.
I also checked on www.martindale.com . According to them, 26 MSL graduates have been practicing under five years, and 305 have been practicing 5 years or more.
Something's rotten in Andover.
Wow! My typing sucks!!!
I called the Massachusetts Board of Bar Examiners today. They only disclose pass rates to the schools.
MA Lawyer's Weekly publishes articles, comparing the MA law school's bar pass rates. For the MA Bar, in July 2008, the MSL bar pass rate was 40.8%; for July 2006 the pass rate was 39.5%. (For July 2007, the info is missing on line- July 2007 for MSL is reported as 47.9%,unconfirmed).
There was a 60% MSL pass rate...16 years ago in 1993.
www.masslawyersweekly.com/index.cfm/archive/print/id/445896 and 391314
Someone at MSL keeps the BBE pass rates. Anyone know who?
Thanks for the info. That is certainly opposite to what Coyne stated at the open house.
I agree with the other poster's characterization of this as misrepresentation.
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